tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4345234129024367362.post8957406573901375961..comments2024-03-12T12:44:18.178+08:00Comments on Sharmalan Thevar: Tamil Saivism, Agamas & VedasSharmalan Thevarhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15905439167704608705noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4345234129024367362.post-51900534499042907672021-09-26T01:50:40.956+08:002021-09-26T01:50:40.956+08:00the saiva siddhantists who oppose vedas have prove...the saiva siddhantists who oppose vedas have proven their fallacy in the comment section here.<br />While the author provides copious reference to strengthen his points,the dumils are simply barking and they chicken out when asked for reference.It has been years since this article got penned and they are yet to provide evidence for their claims.Vinnith Pullavarayarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08112571673910849298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4345234129024367362.post-48988347576475529272021-04-14T12:58:48.298+08:002021-04-14T12:58:48.298+08:00I'm replying as an observer, reading through t...I'm replying as an observer, reading through the exchange between you and Sembiyar. <br /><br />Sembiyar provided way more SPECIFIC evidence and there is none from you. Specific evidence means the "paadal", which verse, written in both Tamil script, transliteration and translation. This allows readers like me to cross check and confirm. Because I can always refer to the specific mentions given by Sembiyar. This certainly give upper hand for Sembiyar than someone that challenges his view without specific evidence and effort in place. <br />Elanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15140012260013591530noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4345234129024367362.post-65050718867384585632017-06-01T21:12:49.703+08:002017-06-01T21:12:49.703+08:00I am inspired by your explanations. These people ...I am inspired by your explanations. These people cannot accept truth if you show evidences again and again. Thirupathi is Lord Muruga, then siva is different from Shiva Myayon is different from vishnu like so many myths these people have . They wont accept so easy even though crystal evidences.varathuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10587129301699024897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4345234129024367362.post-79343584341050890602016-08-19T08:51:00.013+08:002016-08-19T08:51:00.013+08:00To me, the author's views are balanced because...To me, the author's views are balanced because they are referenced and logical. I am nonetheless disheartened to learn that language is being used to segregate rather than to unite people in their own faith. To me, if a community is pushing for a particular language as they teach a faith, I feel they are not teaching the Word or Love of God, but inculcating love for that language. Then doesnt it become a language appreciation class? And when done fanatically, it distracts real religious enthusiasts and students automatically find the 'path of least resistance" ( to learning their faith). They rather reach God without concepts being claimed to "theirs" or "ours". Maybe this is the reason present day students of our Hindu faith, though possibly thirsting for Saiva Siddhanta, are content watching from outside rather than entering the arena and fend off language enthusiasts before getting to the sweet nucleus of religious understanding. Again, i am also surprised how when i had brief introduction to both languages at a certain point in my life, I found that teachers who taught religion through Sanskrit never detracted to how it is Sankrit that is superior. Humility regarding the greatness of their revered language was so pervasive that I felt their Love to their faith and all languages that led to understanding it. That mindset made me a fan, just as how Hinduism has long made me a fan of its bigger thinking just by saying all faiths of the world lead to God. For this day and age, any other concept is self destructive. Ethnocentrism in any faith is the seed of demise, in my humble opinion. I wish all paths to be upheld. But spending time and mental effort to bifurcate and seperate people who already belong to a single faith, is futile and thus very unattractive to new aspirants. Why make God purely the territory of some and not all? Perhaps this is the reason one of the comments to the author states that today there are few real Tamils; So long as a language is used to separate people, people will gravitate to a place where God is attained through all-inclusiveness and acceptance, not ethnocentricism and validation of ones own roots. This is just a view from a less religiously educated person, seeking God through those who have found peace in themselves already and are not using language, state or culture to claim God. Hope Saiva Siddhanta brings more people back to Hinduism, the way our saints wanted it.Shobha Janardananhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00823908845910132161noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4345234129024367362.post-43451955116581429402016-03-02T11:12:34.919+08:002016-03-02T11:12:34.919+08:00வேதமொடு ஆகமம் மெய்யாம் இறைவன் நூல்
ஓதும் பொதுவும் ...வேதமொடு ஆகமம் மெய்யாம் இறைவன் நூல்<br />ஓதும் பொதுவும் சிறப்பும் என்றுள்ளன<br />நாதன் உரையவை நாடில் இரண்டந்தம்<br />பேதமதென்பர் பெரியோர்க்கு அபேதமே<br /><br />Vētamoṭu ākamam meyyām iṟaivaṉ nūl<br />ōtum potuvum ciṟappum eṉṟuḷḷaṉa<br />nātaṉ uraiyavai nāṭil iraṇṭantam<br />pētamateṉpar periyōrkku apētamē<br /><br />Translation from Tantra 8, Tirumantiram<br /><br />vedham and Agamam are the truthful Godly scriptures.<br />They are there as general and special.<br />When the conclusion of those two Lord's words<br />are sought, some say 'they are different',<br />but for elevated ones they are not differentSharmalan Thevarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15905439167704608705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4345234129024367362.post-67293522257416617482015-08-18T10:46:38.110+08:002015-08-18T10:46:38.110+08:00Dear Mr. Sharmalan,
I really appreciate your inqu...Dear Mr. Sharmalan,<br /><br />I really appreciate your inquisitiveness to explore the world of Saivism especially through the eyes of our great saint Thirumular. The broader views of Saivism from various thought of schools are always able to capture more information. But the TRUTH of that information must be deeply investigated. The selected verses of Thirumanthiram will serve certain view. But the fundamental inquiries only can be answered by the holistic perspective of all the verses of Thirumanthiram. <br /><br /> These are some selected sites for your mind screening and for your further inner inquiries.<br /><br />https://sites.google.com/site/ulagansbooks/cittanta-attuvitam<br />https://sites.google.com/site/sacredtamil/siddhanta-and-vedanta<br />https://sites.google.com/site/sacredtamil/tirumular--saiva-siddhanta<br />https://sites.google.com/site/tirumantiram/tirumular-utcamayam/a1-pakuti-1<br /><br />The Tamil divine literature world is very vast and beautiful. I think you have started gain access into it. Be more explorative and try to penetrate the mind of our great Tamil saints. They are brilliant scholars. Please read Meykandar and Arunnanthi scholarly Saiva Siddhanta works as well. <br /><br /><br />Prof. Veerapandian brought your web site into our discussion. The letters from Mr.Arjunamani and me were not addresses to you but to Prof. Veerapandian. <br /><br />It is wise to send or cc to you a copy of those since your work is part of our discussion. <br />Thank you for your kind contribution to our Saivite community. Keep it up. All the best to you and keep yourself open and penetrative.<br /><br />Love is Siva. Truth is to be investigated.<br /><br />Thank you.<br /><br />With love,<br />Dr.Sivakumar<br />avisramu1001@gmail.com<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06236047174052451272noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4345234129024367362.post-24132507070354996682015-08-15T13:02:11.592+08:002015-08-15T13:02:11.592+08:00Theology apart, I have a sneaking suspicion that C...Theology apart, I have a sneaking suspicion that Christian Missionary mischief may be at play here, to divide Hindus further as North Indian Saivites and South Indian Saivites ( Sanskrit vs Tamil) !<br />R.VenkatanarayananR.Venkatanarayananhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09806787979823880014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4345234129024367362.post-35240629937139983862015-08-14T20:20:52.818+08:002015-08-14T20:20:52.818+08:00For POINT 4, would also add Purana as one of the i...For POINT 4, would also add Purana as one of the inspirations.Sharmalan Thevarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15905439167704608705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4345234129024367362.post-46963902277946978462015-08-14T16:47:12.662+08:002015-08-14T16:47:12.662+08:00POINT 6
"It will be a travesty of truth if an...POINT 6<br />"It will be a travesty of truth if any one think that Siva worship has anything to do with Sans.Vedhas. Concept of Siva was conceived and developed by Tamils and accepted by most linguistic groups of India. The evangelists of Sans.Vedhas adapted some of the prevailing concept of Siva (several centuries ago) and plagiarized it in Sanskrit.Materialistic Tamils solely depend on English. Religious Tamils blindly follow Sanskrit. We hardly have real Tamils."<br /><br />Nayanmars like Appar, Sambanthar and Thirumular had nothing against the Vedas. They praised it. What you are doing under the so called Saiva banner today is misguiding the Tamil people. You are deviating from the real teachings of the Nayanmars. You are telling them something which was never told by the Nayanmars. You then market it and sell it to the naive people. This is happening because you have hatred towards certain community and certain scriptures which you think is alien to you. Your desire to make Siva exclusively Tamil shows how shallow your mentality is because you are willing to lock Siva within your walls of linguistic hatred.<br /><br />Siva is beyond all these. He has no boundaries. <br />Sharmalan Thevarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15905439167704608705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4345234129024367362.post-46196602592113225752015-08-14T16:38:41.565+08:002015-08-14T16:38:41.565+08:00POINT 5
"One of the basic attribute of Tamils...POINT 5<br />"One of the basic attribute of Tamils' Siva (not Shiva) is பிறவா யாக்கைப் பெரியோன். The Rudra of Sans.Vedhas was born to Prajapathy, a human. How can they claim Rudra is Siva?"<br /><br />The are various forms of Rudra and similar deities in the Vedas. Is Mr.President referring to them or is he referring to the Rudra mentioned in Sri Rudram? The Sri Rudram contains various references of Rudra as Siva being his auspicious form while the terrifying form is known as Aghora. I even gave evidence of the Panchakshra NaMaSiVaYa taken from the Sri Rudram. I even quoted Appar's hymms on NaMaSiVaYa and also the Nayanmar's words on Vedas. Rudra Pasupathi Nayanmar chanted the Sri Rudram daily and this is from the Yajur Veda. <br /><br />Is Mr.President now going to claim that the Nayanmars are also wrong since they chanted Sri Rudram and made reference to the Vedas? Sharmalan Thevarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15905439167704608705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4345234129024367362.post-85038198057775360692015-08-14T16:27:15.170+08:002015-08-14T16:27:15.170+08:00POINT 4
Koothapiran (Natarajah), Aalamar Chelvan (...POINT 4<br />Koothapiran (Natarajah), Aalamar Chelvan (Dhakshna Murthy), Karai Midatru Annal (Neelakanta) are the forms originally contributed by Tamils and not found in Sans.Vedhas<br /><br />These forms were inspired by the Vedas, not the other way around. For example, Neelakanta is the name he received after drinking the Halala poison. The word Neelakanta is mentioned in the Vedas. I even gave the 1st Anuvaka of Sri Rudram Namakam in my article. The word Neelanta was highligted there. If Mr.President actually read my article fully, he wouldn't even mention this. Now I began to wonder if he actually read what I wrote.Sharmalan Thevarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15905439167704608705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4345234129024367362.post-44395036074231135492015-08-14T16:18:07.023+08:002015-08-14T16:18:07.023+08:00POINT 3
"Thirumurai, Saiva Siddhantha and S...POINT 3 <br /><br />"Thirumurai, Saiva Siddhantha and Saiva Agamas provide a consistent and highly Divine model of God who is an embodiment of pure love. There are hundreds of views on God in Sanskrit Vedhas which are confusing and inconsistent." <br /><br />It is confusing and looks inconsistent because it only takes a properly trained person to understand it fully. This is why it falls under the Shruti category like the Agamas. Shrutis are not a piece of cake to be digested by ordinary people. To make the digestion available for all, the saints came up with Smirtis like Vedanta, Upanishad, Thirumurai etc etc. Whatever they have written is based on their mastery over the ShrutisSharmalan Thevarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15905439167704608705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4345234129024367362.post-8312050040530666162015-08-14T16:13:45.468+08:002015-08-14T16:13:45.468+08:00POINT 2
"Saiva Agamas (available in Tamil as ...POINT 2<br />"Saiva Agamas (available in Tamil as Thirumanthiram and also in Sanskrit (but only in Grantha script) are treasures of Tamils, written by Tamils and used exclusively by Tamils. That is why, the Temples in Tamil nations are distinctly different. The Sanskrit Vedhas do not even make a mention of Agamas or Temples. It is a great injustice that not-so-divine document (sans.vedhas) are used exclusively in Temples of Tamil Saivites. Hindu temples in other states do not use Sanskrit that much."<br /><br />The Agamas are written in Sanskrit. The script used is Grantha. The Grantha script was developed to cater for <br /><br />Sanskrit. Besides scripture, Grantha was also used by the ancient Tamils to trade with non-Tamil nations that used Sanskrit such as those in Southeast Asia. The Pallavas helped to introduce this script. Hence we can find stone inscriptions written in Pallava Grantha in many SEA places with a history of trading.<br /><br />Since the president quoted Thirumanthiram, I would like to ask why the President ignored that the great sage Thirumular also praised the Vedas. This is explained in Veda Sirappu. Thirumular also declared that both Vedas and Agamas are of divine origin. But the President of World Saiva Council Australia seems to have some hatred towards Vedas. <br /><br />This goes against the teachings of Thirumular himself. As Saivites who uphold the Thirumantiram, he should set an example by following the teachings of Thirumular, not go against it. So a true Saivite will uphold not only the Agamas but also the Vedas as both these scriptures were praised by Thirumular.<br /><br />Here is the evidence taken from Thirumantiram:<br /><br />வேதமொ டாகமம் மெய்யாம் இறைவன்நூல்<br />ஓதும் பொதுவும் சிறப்பும் என்றுள்ளன<br />நாதன் உரைஅவை நாடில் இரண்டந்தம்<br />பேதம தென்னில் பெரியோர்க் கபேதமே<br /><br />Vētamo ṭākamam meyyām iṟaivaṉnūl<br />ōtum potuvum ciṟappum eṉṟuḷḷaṉa<br />nātaṉ urai'avai nāṭil iraṇṭantam<br />pētama teṉṉil periyōrk kapētamē<br /><br />In this hymm, Thirumular declares both the Vedas and Agamas are of divine origin. He then clarifies that Veda is General and Agama is Special. He further mentions that for those who are truly learned, both are the same. <br /><br />I wonder why Mr.President can't see the bigger picture as desired by Thirumular himself.Sharmalan Thevarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15905439167704608705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4345234129024367362.post-56634089860270076872015-08-14T15:51:13.782+08:002015-08-14T15:51:13.782+08:00POINT 1
"What this author says, was already w...POINT 1<br />"What this author says, was already well known views of people who are blind supporters of Rik, Yajur, Sama and Atharvana Vedhas. Such people consider Sanskrit is the only language of God. Invariably, these people have little knowledge of Sanskrit Vedhas and Thirumurai. They read here and there and quote some convenient passages from these primary sources."<br /><br />As the author of the article, I would like to strongly point out that I am not a blind supporter of any scripture or literature. I analyze things and write based on that. If the President cared to read my article properly, he would have noticed the last lines of my writing:<br /><br />"Siva worship transcends all boundaries and that includes linguistic boundaries. Love towards ones language should not become an obstacle to embrace complete Siva worship"<br /><br />So to me, it does not matter whether it is the Vedas, Agamas or something else. Hope this is clear. Sharmalan Thevarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15905439167704608705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4345234129024367362.post-2524868873762125512015-08-14T15:47:49.811+08:002015-08-14T15:47:49.811+08:00Thank you for posting this from the President of W...Thank you for posting this from the President of World Saiva Council Australia. I will soon explain with proper elaboration on why his points are wrong. Sharmalan Thevarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15905439167704608705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4345234129024367362.post-13434902544268913802015-08-14T15:00:34.177+08:002015-08-14T15:00:34.177+08:00Vanakkan Dr Veerapandian Aiyah,
Thanks for circul...Vanakkan Dr Veerapandian Aiyah,<br /><br />Thanks for circulating this link. Sharmalan Thevar: Tamil Saivism & Vedas<br /><br />What this author says, was already well known views of people who are blind supporters of Rik, Yajur, Sama and Atharvana Vedhas. Such people consider Sanskrit is the only language of God. Invariably, these people have little knowledge of Sanskrit Vedhas and Thirumurai. <br /><br />They read here and there and quote some convenient passages from these primary sources.<br /><br />Saiva Agamas (available in Tamil as Thirumanthiram and also in Sanskrit (but only in Grantha script) are treasures of Tamils, written by Tamils and used exclusively by Tamils. That is why, the Temples in Tamil nations are distinctly different. The Sanskrit Vedhas do not even make a mention of Agamas or Temples. It is a great injustice that not-so-divine document (sans.vedhas) are used exclusively in Temples of Tamil Saivites. Hindu temples in other states do not use Sanskrit that much.<br /><br />Thirumurai, Saiva Siddhantha and Saiva Agamas provide a consistent and highly Divine model of God who is an embodiment of pure love. There are hundreds of views on God in Sanskrit Vedhas which are confusing and inconsistent.<br /><br />Koothapiran (Natarajah), Aalamar Chelvan (Dhakshna Murthy), Karai Midatru Annal (Neelakanta) are the forms originally contributed by Tamils and not found in Sans.Vedhas.<br /><br />One of the basic attribute of Tamils' Siva (not Shiva) is பிறவா யாக்கைப் பெரியோன். The Rudra of Sans.Vedhas was born to Prajapathy, a human. How can they claim Rudra is Siva?<br /><br />It will be a travesty of truth if any one think that Siva worship has anything to do with Sans.Vedhas. Concept of Siva was conceived and developed by Tamils and accepted by most linguistic groups of India. The evangelists of Sans.Vedhas adapted some of the prevailing concept of Siva (several centuries ago) and plagiarized it in Sanskrit.<br /><br />Materialistic Tamils solely depend on English. Religious Tamils blindly follow Sanskrit. We hardly have real Tamils.<br /><br />Anbudan<br /><br />M Arjunamani<br />President, World Saiva Council AustraliaAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06236047174052451272noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4345234129024367362.post-60429574341651803252015-08-14T09:11:43.645+08:002015-08-14T09:11:43.645+08:00Please provide some reference. Please provide some reference. Sharmalan Thevarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15905439167704608705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4345234129024367362.post-56003024263368031482015-08-13T23:48:02.023+08:002015-08-13T23:48:02.023+08:00My explanation was too large (more than 4,096 word...My explanation was too large (more than 4,096 words) thus was rejected; but anyway the Tamil Civa and Vedic Siva are not the same. As consolation what these Saiva people are preaching is also not the Tamil Civa. They have a third form which is unique to them and it is the Saiva Siva. I am talking on the theological aspect of the religion. Rajanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18409698638139956554noreply@blogger.com